At about midnight Sunday Comandante Tacho, accompanied by the rest of the Zapatista delegation, talked with a curious mixture of local, national, foreign, commercial and alternative, press and a few television reporters.
Tacho talked about the difficulties with the negotiations, in a tone that was a little less hopeful than the one he used the following day while talking in the Plaza de San Andres and later during another interview with international agencies. The final evaluation of the Zapatistas was positive at the end of Sunday morning's negotiations, but Saturday night there were more doubts.
"When we presented our proposal for the general agenda, we were asked about the 34 points for which the EZLN fought which were not included, and they asked us if they were no longer part of our demands. We told them, no, but that this was not the time to discuss them. We insisted upon the national themes, and said that the law did not allow them to be discussed in this dialogue. They said that if there was some national theme that was agreed upon at the negotiation table, that they would send it to the Congress of the Union. They spoke to us in words that we could not quickly understand.
"They wanted to discuss the demands with us, now, but we said that it wasn't the right time". Hours later, at the end of the third round of San Andres, Comandante Tacho himself said: "The agenda is the principal part of the dialogue, and that is where we made progress, but the government does acknowledge it because it wanted to discuss other things that should be looked at later on, like the themes of health, land and housing. The government wants to begin there, but the procedure, which is the most important thing, still has to be discussed."
The differences still are many, but according to the Tojolabal leader: "The government wants the proposal that it is making to us to win", he said Saturday night. "It wants us to adhere to their proposals, and we can not do that".
He stated that the government representatives do not take the Zapatista proposals seriously, such as the work session to discuss the situation of women in Mexico: "They said that it was not a point that should be discussed separately. They said why isn't there a work session about young people, children, or the elderly? They began to make fun of it".
He said that the proposals of the EZLN and the government do not concur; later, after the agreements about the agenda had been developed, it would seem that they were "few, but they are important advances because they refer to the agenda, which is one of the most difficult parts of the dialogue".
The comings and goings of the CONAI, Tacho explained, are in pursuit of the impossible: to make proposals that do not concur, agree. For example, regarding the discussion about the theme of women, which was of growing importance to the Zapatista delegation, no agreement could be reached. Regarding this point Comandante Trinidad spoke, to say what the women in the villages think.
"We think that we want a better life for women. Most of us are in the Lacandon jungle. Our husbands sometimes are drunks, we want women to be free, to not be kept as servants, to not be pinned down. The government does not take us into account. It says, for the most part women don't count. We the Comandantes think that a work session on women [is important], but the government does not want to give it any attention."
A little bit earlier Tacho said: "In Mexico women have not had their rightful place, let alone roles in public life. They exist only to obey, to take care of their children. A life deprived of rights and freedoms.
"In the majority of the Mexican families the man always rules", he added, and then continued," In the Zapatista troops women have a place, they can lead".
"Women are very valuable", continued Trinidad. "We work all day long, from 4 in the morning until night. We don't earn a salary, and we don't have the right to make a profit. When we get paid, it is because we are working with our husbands, our sons. The man should deal with money, but the woman gets nothing".
Regarding the invitation to join the discussions that the Zapatistas are extending to the political parties, comandante Tacho clarified: "We are inviting the political parties of the left, the social organizations, the National Democratic Convention, the National Convention of Women. We are calling all of them to form a work group. We can not invite the party of the State, because that is what we are fighting. They defend the interests of their party, the interests of capital, exploitation, imposition."
About the recent military movements Tacho said:" What they want to do is intimidate us. That's the reason for their patrols, their flyovers, to try to force us to say that their proposal is good."
About the national plebescite that the EZLN is convening he stated: "We are waiting for the results of the plebescite to see whether there really is agreement with the people of Mexico and the world. If the government does not accept a national dialogue, we are going to ask the people of Mexico whether there should be national themes."
At that moment in the middle of the night the sound of a motor was heard. Tacho commented: " See. Point the microphone towards the plane." It was 11:30 pm. He continued: "What we understand about the discussions is that it is possible to come to an agreement. When something comes up that they don't like, they stall, they don't have anything else to say. For us, if we don't come to an agreement in one of the points, we go on to another and look for something we can agree on."
Regarding his thoughts about the presence of the Army general in the government's delegation, and the power that he has, he said: "The aide, the general who is at the table, is in charge of the maps. In the beginning he wanted to give us lessons on geography; he wanted to tell us where things were located, but we live where the actions have occurred. They don't even know where the army is. They don't know or they don't want to treat us with respect, " and he added: "In reality the delegation that represents the government is not those who are in control, that's what we perceive".
Caught between the government's proposal for a reciprocal reduction of tensions, and the Zapatista's proposal for a stable and enduring truce, the delegations met in private. "The govern- ment's delegation asked to talk, they told us they felt alone and that they were taking a hard line because we did not trust them". The Zapatistas are afraid that they are deceiving them "in plain view".
In the interview after the end of the dialogue, Tacho revealed: "For the government, the agreements that were reached were very few, however, they were the ones that they asked us to accept, as a favor. We are not going to do it as a favor, but rather because we really could come to an agreement. They were asking for something, anything, to be agreed upon, but now it seems like only a little to them".
Regarding what the Zapatistas hope for from their dialogue with civil society, Tacho expressed the following thoughts: "We would have met to dialogue earlier, when there weren't so many divisions. In action, they [civil society] are accustomed to being divided, each one wants to be proud, to say they are the best. But that's not what it's about. It's about being a good fighter, willing to move the struggle forward. Before it used to be that the talker was always the leader, not anymore.. Words no longer matter, the deputies can no longer stand to make declarations and then leave.
"They have this vice of wanting to be the chief. Here a companero has to demonstrate his leadership through his actions. A leader has to show how to organize again in new ways, because Mexican society is not organized right now. We say to them let's organize a brand new movement, a modern one, where we feel like brothers and sisters, like Mexicans. Something new has to be made, we can't fall back on the same old tactics".